Interview With The Goth
Read this before you throw away your coloured clothes.
This is the transcript of an actual conversation that took place on 2-3-2000. I had some questions I wanted to ask. So Penny and I asked Gareth, the 17 year old goth from Wellington.
Ani. So Gareth, hi.
Gareth. Hi.
Penny. So like, hi.
A. So Gareth, what do you classify as a goth?
G. Anyone who wants to be called a goth.
A. Do you think that anyone actually wants to be a goth?
G. Yes, people who don't know any.
A. What do you mean by that?
P. Yeah, what she said.
G. The only people who I have ever known that I would actually call "goths" are junkies or have diseases and are the walking dead.
A. Are you any of these?
G. No.
A. I wouldn't say that I'm the authority on "Gothism", but to me, you look like a goth.
P. What do you have to say about this?
G. Lots of people look like lots of other people. *shrug*
A. So you don't claim to be original, different or that no one understands your plight of life?
G. Plight?
A. Yeah, you know. Plight.
P. He's not very responsive is he? *prod*
A. Maybe he is goth. *repeats question*
G. I think the factors of people's personalities make them all original, but yes. I am a cliché.
A. So you're goth.
G. No. But you'll call me one anyway.
A. Pesky little bastard. Why would you think that people see you as "goth"?
P. Because he looks like a fucking goth.
G. Because I'm a lanky kid in dark clothing.
A. Speaking of clothing, why do you dress the way you do?
G. Black can represent anything.
A. So is there any relation between the way you dress and Johnny The Homicidal Maniac, or am I just imagining it?
G. You're saying that because I'm wearing stripes today?
A. As a matter of fact, I am. Is that a no then?
G. Yes, you are just imagining it. You're making quick connections.
A. Do you think most people do this?
G. Yes.
A. A man of many words I see.
P. Still on clothing, is there a relation between the way you dress and the music you listen to?
G. I listen to a lot of music. Again you're making quick conclusions that I only listen to gothy stuff. But I enjoy hip-hop, jazz and blues. I like what I like regardless of genre. *yawn* I've had about two hours sleep on a small couch. Excuse me.
A. Let me guess. You went to a fetish party night?
P. He modelled at the fetish party last night. For body worship.
A. Basically I'm asking why you dress the way do. I wear black, but I wear it because it doesn't mark like other colours. One can wear black and look arty, one can wear black and look like a bogan and one can wear black and look like a goth. So why do you choose to look like a goth? It has to be a conscious decision.
G. a) for my body shape I think it is the styliest choice.
P. So it's about vanity?
G. And you're not guilty?
P. This interview isn't about me. Besides I'm wearing black, I mean white.
A. *laughs*
P. I am wearing white!
G. People are superficial.
P. Are you insinuating that we are superficial?
G. No. I mean people in general.
P. We're people.
G. *big angsty sigh*
A. So what's b?
G. b) it's a filter to stop certain people from talking to me. c) So I can score goth chicks. *giggle*
A. What's the attraction to them?
G. It was a joke.
A. I apologise.
P. So let's talk about music. Tell us about your taste in goth music then. What defines goth music?
G. Being honest about the shitty side of things and looking for hope or a way.
P. So it's about angst then?
G. No, it's about acknowledging it. And looking for what you believe in and.... *trails off into nothing*
A. To be honest, you do actually look like you've jumped out of a Johnny comic. Seriously you do.
G. I know.
A. It's not a bad thing. So what do you think about other types of people, like ravers, and skaters, and hip hoppers, etc?
G. I take people as I find them, I get a little sick of sub cultural boundaries. If I like them, I like them. If I don't, I don't.
A. So you wouldn't be embarrassed if you were with a whole group of your friends who look like you, and a homie chick came up and gave you a big hug... they wouldn't think any differently of you? I mean, some people do... some "goth's" automatically dislike other people for the way they dress if they don't dress the same. That's not you?
G. If it was someone I knew and liked, I would like to think I am not hanging around with shallow goth fucks that would judge them on what subculture they belong to.
P. But you do hang out with those shallow goth fucks... do I need to name them, or do you know the ones I'm talking about?
G. If I do, I don't know it yet. I thought the way I looked was to show I was sick of being manipulated by society, so why would I want to be accepted into another society that's going to try and manipulate me in the same ways?
A. When you think about it, everyone dresses based on the music they listen to, or the people they hang around with.
P. I would agree with that.
A. So does this affect you? Surely it must. You wouldn't expect someone to dress the way they do if they had no external influences. What are yours?
G. Is this about my clothes, or the way I am?
A. Well, both really. Wouldn't that affect the person you are?
G. Well when I started dressing the way I do I didn't know what goth was. And I do like some of the music now. If I were to change now to avoid being a cliché, it's just being manipulated by society. Again.
P. You know, "goth" is the only subculture that people who "belong to it" avoid being classed as belonging to it. I mean, skaters don't go around saying, "I'm not a skater".
G. I think the whole cliché of being misunderstood comes into it because the way people perceive goths isn't how they are or they're just acting.
A. So do you think that being classed as a goth is a negative thing?
P. It's used as an insult. Even goths go around insulting people by calling them goths.
G. No, I just don't like the scene bullshit. People will class you as quickly as they can. It's human nature.
P. I think that being classed as a goth has become a negative thing because most goths are stupid, arrogant fuckwits. I don't think that it used to be a negative thing.
A. I personally think that is has at least a little to do with the media attention drawn to incidents involving people that might be classed as goths. Take for instance the shooting at Columbine High in America. These people didn't actually look like what I would call goths, but the media called them that and put a negative cloud above the heads of people who actually are goths.
P. I think another thing that has been portrayed by the media is the whole suicide thing. I mean, especially the stereotype that goths have that they have to kill themselves when they turn 20.
A. The strange thing is, that when I was in school, I knew of about 4 people who killed themselves at my high school. All of them were popular, over-achievers who wore bright colours and listened to "un-gothy" music. So really, the social stigma is wrong.
G. Well that is probably because they realised that they might not fit in to their little groupie shit and couldn't deal with it.
P. Aren't you putting those people into just as much of a stereotype as you claim people put goths into? *long pause* You can't get around it, you were.
G. Yes, as I said it's human nature and I'm a human. In my experience, the people who rate popularity as important put a lot of pressure on themselves to live up to their "friend's" standards. This also goes on in goth communities.
A. So if someone walking past you on the street looked at you strangely, what would you think?
G. Strangely?
A. Like they were judging you.
G. Let them. If they look at me like they're better than me I laugh because they are the drawing conclusions too quickly.
A. So what do your parents think of the way you dress?
G. They know me, and they've accepted that I'm going to do it my way. That doesn't mean I'm going to rebel against everything, but I know what I'm going to stand against. I.e., fascism, which is exactly what the judgemental goths you refer to are supporting.
A. So in conclusion, what are in your view, the pros and cons of being "goth"?
G. PROS: Creative people are more likely to talk to me. People don't try to tell you what to do. The way people react to you shows certain sides of them very quickly, i.e. if they actually talk to you like a person. CONS: Having people from the goth community think that you're doing it for the same reasons they are. When you want people to take you seriously and they won't.
Cut that up before you eat it.